It is currently Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:51 am
All times are UTC + 8 hours

AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Looking for discussion about hardware compatibility? Look no further.

AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby MBarakov » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:52 am

Hi All,

I just bought AS6404T.

I set up both Kodi and Plex and both work great, but I am unable to play 4K H265 movies with either player. They stutter and the CPU hits 100%.

I thought the Apollo Lake should decode H265 with ease? Or am I missing something.

Asus website specifically says it can play and transcode 4K videos.

Any comments are appreciated.
MBarakov
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:50 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby MikeG.6.5 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:33 am

That CPU can play (with transcodes) a 4K H265 stream, if you use the apps made by Asustor. Since they have the time to dedicate to developing apps specific to the platform, they are always going to have an edge when it comes to the content capabilities of their apps. What they don't have, though, is the over-all richness of features you can get with Kodi, let alone with Plex.

Plex doesn't have any H265 decoding in its HW Transcoding beta (I know this as I use that Plex Pass Beta version myself, even though I don't have any media in that codec at all.) They claim this is coming down the pike, but it hasn't hit the Beta yet, so it's not really on the horizon for anyone not running even this beta.

Have never tried Kodi since I've had my NAS and not likely to ever do so. I found its predecessor too limiting, which is what led me to Plex from the get go. I understand it has some features that are currently missing or implemented differently in Plex, but it's not worth changing things out, IMO for a few features and limiting my own usage as a result.

I want to pose a thought exercise on you, though... Let us say I have a 1080p movie in H264 with 15Mbps bitrate. Now let's say I have the same movie in a 4K H265 stream at a bitrate high enough to support the 2160p a 4K display would have, with the 10-bit color depth information that the H265 codec can support. The bitrates in this case are going to be at least 4X the bitrates of the 1080p stream (the screen is 4X larger, so 4X the data to fill the pixels, etc.) and because the H264 is limited to an 8-bit color depth, you are going to have 20% more color information, so factor that into the over-all bitrate equation. We're now looking at a bitrate in excess of 72Mbps for the same media just due to a change in screen size and color depth.

Now, according to numerous reports and website comparisons, unless you have a TV over 60" and view that 4K content from real close, most people can't really tell the difference during a movie. Action scenes (which are going to be hard on transcoding due to the rate pixels change) are going to be a little bit clearer on a Direct Played stream. But on a transcoded stream, those action scenes are going to be blocky and severely pixelated. (That is if the unit is able to transcode in RT as you stream it.)

4K might be the wave of the future. (All of the major manufacturers are stopping or decreasing the units they make with 1080p support in favor of 4K support.) But for streaming your own media from your own storage devices it's going to take a lot more CPU than most NASes are going to have for mainstream applications such as Kodi or Plex for any kind of transcoding.

If you REALLY want 4K media with any of the main stream apps, the best advice I can offer is to wait it out. In the next 3-5 years 4K will be main stream and not the oddity it is now. And the apps will be able to support it or will have died on the vine. Or use the rather limited player Asustor makes for their products. (Which are limited to playing through the HDMI cable, and not streaming in the strictest of senses.)
MikeG.6.5
 
Posts: 908
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:56 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby orion » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:20 am

MBarakov wrote:Hi All,

I just bought AS6404T.

I set up both Kodi and Plex and both work great, but I am unable to play 4K H265 movies with either player. They stutter and the CPU hits 100%.

I thought the Apollo Lake should decode H265 with ease? Or am I missing something.

Asus website specifically says it can play and transcode 4K videos.

Any comments are appreciated.

If asustor announces this feature, I believe they should test it at least. I think you should send a support request to asustor https://support.asustor.com/. There might be some environmental issue.
User avatar
orion
 
Posts: 1962
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 11:09 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby MikeG.6.5 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 am

orion wrote:
MBarakov wrote:Hi All,

I just bought AS6404T.

I set up both Kodi and Plex and both work great, but I am unable to play 4K H265 movies with either player. They stutter and the CPU hits 100%.

I thought the Apollo Lake should decode H265 with ease? Or am I missing something.

Asus website specifically says it can play and transcode 4K videos.

Any comments are appreciated.

If asustor announces this feature, I believe they should test it at least. I think you should send a support request to asustor https://support.asustor.com/. There might be some environmental issue.


There isn't an environmental issue affecting this. It comes down to the apps themselves. Asustor has written in support for the codec into their apps. The other suites are cross-platform apps and support on individual devices is going to be spotty at best.

Imagine you are the developer of a suite. Next imagine the thousands of possible hardware configurations the suite could be run on. Now imagine you have to develop something that gives all of the options to fit all of those possible hardware combinations.

Asustor has it easy developing for just a handful of models. They can make it fit each model pretty easily.

Now think of how the developers for Kodi or Plex must be thinking. Desktop PC's with any of 100's of video crards, CPUs, etc. Or QNAP, Synology and Asustor NASes. Or a Mac, WD NAS, etc. Getting all of it right for all of those devices could be, well, overwhelming. It's going to take some time for Kodi or Plex to support this codec.

Asustor has support for it with their own, homegrown app. LooksGood. And that covers the advertising. It's the shortcomings of this app itself that leads others to different apps. LooksGood only supports output on the HDMI connection, or to a single stream from one other device. It can't be streamed remotely and you can't have more than one stream running at one time. Way too limiting, IMO. You want to stream to your tablet, phone or TV while another stream is running, you aren't going to be using LooksGood. You are going to use a mainstream app such as Plex or Kodi and have to contend with the limitations of those apps. (No H265 support via HW transcoding, for example.)
MikeG.6.5
 
Posts: 908
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:56 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby orion » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:25 am

MikeG.6.5 wrote:There isn't an environmental issue affecting this. It comes down to the apps themselves. Asustor has written in support for the codec into their apps. The other suites are cross-platform apps and support on individual devices is going to be spotty at best.

Imagine you are the developer of a suite. Next imagine the thousands of possible hardware configurations the suite could be run on. Now imagine you have to develop something that gives all of the options to fit all of those possible hardware combinations.

Asustor has it easy developing for just a handful of models. They can make it fit each model pretty easily.

Now think of how the developers for Kodi or Plex must be thinking. Desktop PC's with any of 100's of video crards, CPUs, etc. Or QNAP, Synology and Asustor NASes. Or a Mac, WD NAS, etc. Getting all of it right for all of those devices could be, well, overwhelming. It's going to take some time for Kodi or Plex to support this codec.

Asustor has support for it with their own, homegrown app. LooksGood. And that covers the advertising. It's the shortcomings of this app itself that leads others to different apps. LooksGood only supports output on the HDMI connection, or to a single stream from one other device. It can't be streamed remotely and you can't have more than one stream running at one time. Way too limiting, IMO. You want to stream to your tablet, phone or TV while another stream is running, you aren't going to be using LooksGood. You are going to use a mainstream app such as Plex or Kodi and have to contend with the limitations of those apps. (No H265 support via HW transcoding, for example.)

I mean KODI. It's under official software package. So I believe they should test it for 4K video playback. Plex is now under 3rd party software section. I'm not sure if they tested. Anyway, sending a support request to asustor should be able to clarify it.
User avatar
orion
 
Posts: 1962
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 11:09 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby MBarakov » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:42 am

I have sent support request. They asked me to ensure the video files I am trying to play are compatible, so I have sent some screenshots.

Waiting for feedback. Kodi indeed is the main app that is supposed to play H.265 4K
MBarakov
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:50 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby joselumg » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:12 am

I have the same problem and it is Kodi fault
joselumg
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:55 am

Re: AS6404T - 4K (H265) Issue

Postby MikeG.6.5 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:23 pm

MBarakov wrote:Waiting for feedback. Kodi indeed is the main app that is supposed to play H.265 4K


Kodi is no longer a supported app on Asustor's platforms. See this link: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9544 I have almost begged Asustor to remove Kodi from the list of supported apps for over 3 years. It's only due to outside issues that have caused Kodi support to be pulled from the Asustor suite. (Like a cease and desist order...)

Kodi was never advertised by Asustor as being able to stream H265 4K on any Asustor device, period. As I have already stated once.... The claims for H265 4K on the device is through Asustor's own, home grown application suite. LooksGood. that's as far as Asustor has ever taken the support for the codec/resolution in the past. (And explains why now they no longer support the Kodi suite.)

From a perspective of Plex and transcoding... A 1080p H264 file at 8Mbps takes roughly 2000 passmarks to transcode the media down to other resolutions. That's 1080p... 4K is 2160p or 2 times the width/height of the 1080p screen or 4 times the pixel density on an 8-bit color depth... So 4 times the pixel density means 4 times the horses need to convert the media on a client device that can't play that media natively. That's over 8000 passmarks for an 8-bit color depth. Add in another 20-25% for the 10-bit color depth allowed in the H265 codec specs and you are look at a minimum of 10K passmark scores required to convert the media... For a SINGLE stream...

While there are a number of CPU's out there that can handle 10K passmarks, none of them are currently in any OTS or over the counter NASes currently in manufacture. With darned few exceptions, most of the CPU's in current NAS line ups are little more than a glorified cell phone CPU. And you want these to transcode media that a full blown desktop device might choke on?

Bottom line: You bought a NAS and want that NAS to do what many desktop machines CAN'T do. If you want H265 support on any NAS with an app suite like Kodi, it's time to make your own and install FreeNAS or similar on it. You're not going to get it in the toaster sized machine you bought. It's going to take a $500 CPU on a $300 motherboard with another $300 worth of video cards. In a box much bigger than what you have now... (And much more power hungry, I might add.)

Kodi is finally gone. IMO, no regrets at all!
MikeG.6.5
 
Posts: 908
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:56 am

Return to Hardware Compatibility

  • You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests