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[ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

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[ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby father.mande » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:11 pm

Hi,

to don't confuse users ... I will delete my own Domoticz delivery to don't be in conflict with "Patrick" domoticz offer.
It's totally stupid to provide multiple APKG of the same Software ... and some time I am stupid ... :lol:

I am sorry to don't verify before building mine.

Please use version from Patrick, with a better support and capabilities.

Apologize for this error.

Philippe.
AS5002T / AS202TE / AS1002T
My Blog specific to my APKG : https://blog.father-mande.ovh/
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby rezza » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:23 pm

Hello Philippe.

thanks for your lastest version.
Since dz 2020 version, I have switched to a DZ Docker version and it is fine for me right now.

As far as I understood, the Asustor installation package made by Patrick is NOT the latest DZ Version (4.X instead of 2020.x) .
So, as something "easy to install", I think YOU are proposing the only DZ "offer" available.
Is that right ? Did I missed something ?

Thanks a lot for all your effort.

regards

RezzA
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby Simonix » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:29 pm

You did miss that a docker based apkg pulls the latest available image at the time of the apkg installation. Therefore the software version shown in app central is irrelevant/misleading.

In my mind it's not ideal to combine apkg and docker.
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby father.mande » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:57 pm

Hi,

As I said ... the only stupid thing is to have multiple APKG for the same ... except if the environment is changed.

Docker version come before mine ...
I don't use (and don't appreciate) docker because they add an unknown environment without (in large case) update of the system libraries used and sometimes not support internal update mechanism

Docker image is provide by people saying you : trust me trust me ... as the snake with Mowgli ... but it's not easy to know exactly what are inside, lot of docker image add malware or mining crypto-money etc. and it's just a joke to said it's secure ... with very few action it's always possible to access the host ... but lot of people prefer to don't accept this ...
Docker have value only if you build yourself the image and know the risk and limitation ... in other case you offer your system ... to all ...

But Docker like AppImage or equivalent is good ... you have nothing to do, just integrate it (build APKG env.) and you can get a software ...
for my own, and only for me, it's better to be able to get immediate security update if need and NOT only for the software used but also for the environment.

At end ... I continue to said ... it's stupid to have 2 offers ... and sure Patrick can help anybody to be at the latest version and manage update ... even the responsibility of the delivery (docker image) don't exist and are reported to the image creator.

It's not a contest ... and Patrick is certainly (as provider) able to get you a full support.

Philippe.
AS5002T / AS202TE / AS1002T
My Blog specific to my APKG : https://blog.father-mande.ovh/
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby Simonix » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:05 am

I think you are a little bit missing the point of Docker though.

1. The trust aspect is true for any binary software being installed - no difference here.
2. Regarding the security updates, I don't think it's a relevant point considering the dated software Asustor provides. Contrary to Asustor, Linuxserver docker images (like the one used in the DZ apkg) are updated regularly to include environment security updates.
3. Another benefit of a Docker image is to ensure the environment works regardless of the library version on the host. It ensures the software runs as intended and reduces the risk for bugs and other issues.
In the case of Asustor, it is actually convenient to run a software relying on newer libraries.
4. Regarding the updates, for a docker apkg: uninstall and reinstall the app from app central (config and data remains). Alternatively, use docker, portainer, or other tools to pull the latest image and redeploy.
5. Internal update is a non-sense. Docker is designed for production environments where updates needs to be deployed when requested/desired. One definitely don't want a new software (that may not work properly itself or with other software) every time your restart the container.
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby father.mande » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:04 am

Hi,

If you think it's true ... it's your opinion ... but in fact ... it's false ... :lol:

but think what you want ... and dream .. it's a good solution to be happy. :lol: I have work a lot with Docker, LXC and namespace ... and write some cookbook on it ... even I am not an expert like you ... I have some little idea about it ... but nobody have the true ... so for me the discussion is closed ... everybody can choice to be a consumer without knowledge or a customer ... it's free ...

In all case, the problem is closed I suppress all my delivery ... so Docker is alone and the best choice (where you are alone you are always the best) :roll: :lol: :lol:

Philippe.
NB APKG even native don't need to be attached to Asustor libraries delivery (exactly as container ... but not hidden and with just in time update) and Docker is built first to sale services but ... use free software as catch.
AS5002T / AS202TE / AS1002T
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby rezza » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:36 am

Simonix wrote:You did miss that a docker based apkg pulls the latest available image at the time of the apkg installation. Therefore the software version shown in app central is irrelevant/misleading.

In my mind it's not ideal to combine apkg and docker.


Hello Simonix. Thanks for the explanation.
I have never focused too much on Patrick DZ offer and missed it was an asustor APKG package, always pulling the latest official DZ release available.

I am personally using another docker version ( https://github.com/stas-demydiuk/domoticz-docker ) with a specific beta version with no TAG (managed with Portainer). so I am not always pulling the latest available version. So I feel " in charge" for choosing my version.

For Father Mande' s fears about security i think I have to admit that he is right. I have never challenged what is inside the container image and cannot guarantee that latest available system security updates are inside and that no security breach or voluntary back doors are embedded...

What do you think ?
Last edited by rezza on Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [ALERT] due to multiple domoticz offer ... I will delete mine

Postby rezza » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:39 am

I am clearly not an expert in docker but when the container is built from a dockerfile we are able to see transparently where the system packages are taken from.
so from my point of view there is transparency in what is inside the docker image.
Am I right ?
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